#HipHopEd: The Concept. The Movement. The Conference. - Dr. Chris Emdin & Timothy Jones

[00:00:00] I am Brother Cornel West and this is Hip-Hop Can Save America Check out my free Substack newsletter at www.mannyfaces.substack.com that's filled with all kinds of stories of hip-hop innovation, inspiration, and generally hip-hop news that isn't about dumb sh**.

[00:00:43] For everything Hip-Hop Can Save America, hiphopcansaveamerica.com For everything Manny Faces, www.mannyfaces.com And if you find value in this work, you can support it. We'd love to have you aboard as a supporter at patreon.com slash Manny Faces. Now let's go.

[00:00:57] The thing about hip-hop today is it's smart. It's insightful. The way that they can communicate a complex message in a very short space is remarkable. And a lot of these kids, they're not going to be reading the New York Times. That's not how they're getting their information.

[00:01:27] The greatest gifts that hip-hop gave us is rap. Well, yes, but I mean also DJs? Of course, but breakers, graffiti artists, beatboxers? Yes, yes, yes. I mean more than just the arts. Rap snacks? No, hip-hop based education. Oh yeah, wait what?

[00:02:03] I'm Manny Faces and this is hip-hop news that isn't about dumb sh**. June 22, 2024, Teachers College, New York City. The Hip-Hop Ed Conference will bring together a plethora of academics and educators and activists who are using the power of hip-hop music and culture to improve the educational lives

[00:02:23] of students from all walks of life, but most importantly in communities that have been hindered by racial and economic injustice. Now to the uninitiated, hip-hop and education together might sound like a strange concept, but if you're in the education space or anything even closely related, I guarantee

[00:02:38] you this conference will change your entire perspective. So register now. Details are in the video description or on Instagram at Hip-Hop Ed. And for more like this, tune into Hip-Hop Can Save America, the live stream show every Monday night, 9 p.m. Eastern, hiphopcasaveramerica.com slash watch.

[00:02:54] Hey, that's us. That's what we're doing now. Congratulations if you follow directions and tuned in. And now as a reward for doing so, the very inimitable Dr. Chris Amdon, the very inimitable Timothy Jones from the Hip-Hop Ed movement joining me tonight. What's up, gentlemen? What's poppin' man?

[00:03:12] First of all, I just want to say to you thank you for what you do in this space. Thank you for literally saving America through hip hop. And thank you for not shying away from controversial issues and topics, including this one around Jay-Z.

[00:03:24] Like I just really appreciate you. It takes boldness and courage and fervor and wisdom to do what you do the way you do it, Kang. So salute to you. I appreciate that appreciation. Tim? Yeah, yeah. Glad to be here and just echoing what my brother said,

[00:03:39] but definitely thank you for that reel and just showing some love to the movement. You've been day one rocking with us, and so we're excited to be on the show with you. I appreciate the excitement. I'm very excited. Tim, you've been on before, so, you know,

[00:03:55] and I thank you for rocking with me in the past. Dr. Amdon and Chris, you ought to know that in my heart of hearts, I had illusions of grandeur, and I was going to do some big like fireside chat live event, and I was going to have you.

[00:04:06] So I was saving you for like, you know, so don't take it personal, don't ever take it personal, but I'm glad that... That's all love. We'll do that another time. It's all good. I'm trying to do these things. So, but the timing is great.

[00:04:16] If you would, let's start at the future and then go back a little bit to how we got here. We are talking about, I don't know, 12 days before the 2024 Hip Hop Ed Conference happening at Teachers College in New York City as that wonderful commercial demonstrated.

[00:04:31] If you could, just for the people and for myself, just get us caught up on what that conference is going to entail and what it's looking like. I mean, the long and short of it is, you know, we've had this conference every year for the last,

[00:04:41] Tim, is it seven or eight years now? Yeah, I think the first one was 2017 and the only time we stopped was because of the pandemic. Yeah, man. So we've had this gathering and the thing is, it's very simple. You know, what Hip Hop Ed does

[00:04:57] as a sort of digital space, as a nonprofit, is to bring together folks who are doing the work in education who are deeply connected to both hip hop and education and you know, we convene on a digital space once a week

[00:05:11] and we have back and forth conversations with folks and this conference is an opportunity for us to get back together, get re-inspired, re-invigorated, recommitted to our work, re-inspired, see what's going on in different spaces of the country what folks are working on and doing.

[00:05:27] It's a place to borrow ideas. It's a place to share ideas. In an essence and it's true for the family reunion. Like we are all such a beautiful community, smart and committed folks and sometimes you just need to be in each other's presence. Yeah.

[00:05:41] And so this is just, it's our family reunion. And full disclosure, this year we've not had the kind of promotion we've had in years past because it's been such a pressing and trying year to just get back where we are. And so this opportunity to just remind folks

[00:05:53] that we're still here, we ain't going nowhere. And also in the spirit of a family reunion whether it's 50 or 500 and we've had both it's the same energy, the same purpose. Those who need to be in a building will be in a building

[00:06:05] and we're going to love one each other, learn from each other, inspire each other and then keep going. Yeah, I love it. Tim, what are your thoughts? What are we looking forward to? What's this kind of going to look like in practice? Yeah, so our theme is navigating

[00:06:16] persistent pandemics and possibilities. And that actually was a topic of one of our spaces. And then based on just the energy from the spaces it's like, okay, let's dig into this a little bit more. And one of the things that, you know Chris has always advocated for

[00:06:37] and we hold hard at least and we wholeheartedly buy into is this notion of our conference being the unconference. And what we mean by that and this is not a knock on the academy but it's the type of thing that, okay if we're saying hip hop education

[00:06:59] and if we're hip hop ed but then we mirror the education spaces that vilified hip hop then we actually are worse than those spaces because those spaces wasn't trying to fake and come into the hood. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like

[00:07:20] we lead with hip hop to get that credibility but then push those individuals out and say that you got to have letters behind your name and all these other things. Now over the years I know and one of the things

[00:07:35] that Chris and I are going to begin to do is really dive in to see just what the impact has been over these years about doing that work. But when we say we're that unconference conference it's for that teacher who doesn't think

[00:07:52] that what they are doing in class is something that should be presented as a viable workshop. That teaching artist that works in that after school program that doesn't have the language to really apply to like you know that dope activity you created as a framework

[00:08:13] or you know that the way you're getting young people in and doing things you're actually doing SEL you're actually touching on higher order thinking but that's not the language that works in the space that they're operating in. They're just really doing hip hop

[00:08:32] that you know slang in Brooklyn may be different than slang in the Bronx using it as an example of the importance of language so that's what we're doing. So when we say that family reunion the family reunion they ain't checking

[00:08:46] at the door like okay this is the table for the family members who are successful and then the family member that you know going to have to get a ride you know they going to ask you to loan them some money you bringing them in as well

[00:09:04] so that's really what it's about and you know as Chris said this is the labor of love you know and so we definitely are promoting it and we want everyone to come but it's not about it's not about the quantity it's more about the quality

[00:09:24] and we believe that over the years we've been doing this drum beat of quality and then the quantity will come Yeah I think first of all the idea of language and like translating what we do inherently in hip hop and how that

[00:09:38] can be applied obviously this is kind of the core of the idea of hip hop based education or going back to culturally relevant and you know all the frameworks the educational ideas that have come out of sort of this collective movement over the years. Dr. Betina Love

[00:09:54] was my first guest on this show and she taught me that what we do in the cipher is social and emotional learning and just making that connection is so brilliant to folks that were never thinking about that way so the hip hop movement as a whole

[00:10:09] not taking it back saying like what is it at its core is to help teachers understand that this is a thing right? I mean isn't that basically it? Like you said you may be doing it already and you're trying to get

[00:10:21] I know we don't need the validation but sometimes we gotta present it in a way or you don't even know that you're able to do that, that this is a thing that you can do and that's where y'all kind of help folks forget to facts, facts

[00:10:35] it's not even like that it's just a thing I think what's beautiful about it is that it's a thing that is superior to the existing things that folks are holding up as the ideal while you're perceiving what you're doing as superficial or outside of the context or non-essential

[00:10:51] or like just for the record like yo check this out beloved like what you doing that's really hitting that's turning young folks onto learning that's making them want to come to school more often not only is it a thing that holds weight academically, it's a thing

[00:11:05] that actually is beyond the rule breaks and the benchmarks and the standards those folks are holding up and if you brought this hip hop thing into the academic space you'll find that you're superior and I wanna be really clear about this like it's superior to

[00:11:19] the existing model, it's a recognition that the existing model is fundamentally broken and that through our approaches we meet and surpass their benchmarks and so bring your localized ways of knowing and being connected to the culture into the space and what you'll realize really

[00:11:33] quickly is like wait I'm doper what we want for hip hop ed has always been for folks who just know what's right to do because they believe in a power of hip hop like start recognizing the power they hold by virtue of their intrinsic

[00:11:47] knowledge that's birthed in their body by virtue of what the boom bap does to their hearts and souls it's like yo just so you know beloved you pop and beyond these casts like by virtue of just knowing the power of hip hop because young

[00:12:01] folks break down lyrics you brought into the classroom you're actually doing doper work than a PhD endowed chair professor and it's to be able to put you in like why we are doing it at Teachers College beyond my connection to the institution is that

[00:12:15] we want our people to walk on a stage in a place that holds the highest esteem and sit in their seats and occupy their spaces and own those spaces for the beauty and power and magic that we have intrinsically because we're connected to the culture

[00:12:31] and that is the not the ulterior but it's like it's the contextual cues around our presence is the recognition of our superiority and also to that and we do hip hop ed because we love hip hop the systems of education they can fail they can change

[00:12:53] like you know I'm gonna deal with Chris and I cause we're here like we're husbands we're fathers so we live in models so our wives can say they're married to hip hop our children who are successful in their own right and being

[00:13:11] raised and my children are young adults and Chris's are growing too fast and I coach them and let them know beloved you better grab the memories but they're going to have a different view of what hip hop can be because of the lives that we live and so

[00:13:31] now cause we've been doing this since November 2010 now you have K through 12 schools like you have high schools like you have hip hop classes because at first it was just oh I'll integrate the pedagogy into my class and that's cool that they can rhyme but we've been

[00:13:53] saying no there is scholarship embedded in the culture so it's one thing to say hey my students are going to rap it's another thing to say you know what we're gonna have a unit on Rock Camp and so not only are we breaking down what he's saying

[00:14:13] we're breaking down how he's saying it and then he's aligning it to a jazz musician so now the science teacher and the ELA teacher and the music teacher are co-collaborating on a unit that's built around hip hop so like that's where we're thinking and that's

[00:14:35] the niche that we're lifting up so like this notion of oh partner with the teaching artist no the real talk is the teacher you should come and be the apprentice to the teaching artist that's what we're about integration has never been a successful model for anything

[00:14:56] we've learned at the hallway let's integrate hip hop into the schools when was the last time integration was a successful model for any marginalized population and any existing entity so the goal has never been integration the goal has been reimagination

[00:15:14] how do we use this thing that we know is right to do to reimagine what this school operates as how do we use this thing to reimagine what education is and could be and you know the beautiful thing about hip hop ed for me

[00:15:26] hip hop education generally for me is that it is the ultimate in interdisciplinarity everybody's gonna be on deck your science teacher, your math teacher, your English teacher your art teacher, your history, everybody got a part to play in it

[00:15:36] and it reflects where the world goes or should be and it reflects where the world goes or should be because we are learning now that interdisciplinarity is the ultimate marker of intelligence is the ultimate marker of intelligence but hip hop isn't doing that from the beginning

[00:15:48] you gotta count bars so you gotta know how to count bars ratio, proportion, you gotta be able to write the rhymes you have to be able to write you have to have social and cultural reference you gotta know history, you gotta know social studies

[00:16:00] we just by virtue of being hip hop are doing all the things at once anyway we're asking schools to just catch up you know what I'm saying like, can y'all step y'all game up to match what hip hop already does and that's what the conference kind of showcases

[00:16:12] it showcases members of our community who are literally leading education in wherever endeavors they're doing through hip hop all coming together and the goal is to be able to create man, this is like, this is afrofuturism in real time

[00:16:28] you know what I mean like, we're in the present literally dreaming out loud about the future and an existing within it let me ask a question about the time because you say, been doing it for a long time I know this, you've been writing, there's books

[00:16:40] been on it but also conferences and the spaces and before spaces it was the other thing and the coalition has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and there are people from not just academics but as we've said before, I'm not a traditional academic

[00:16:52] I don't teach in a school, I don't have a PhD or whatever but I still teach people about this thing so you find people from all different areas so over the years though I would imagine you've been making some great progress and now I imagine that because

[00:17:04] of the, I don't know, kind of overarching political and social schemes that are happening around us some of that progress might feel endangered so I'm asking what have the challenges been getting to this point what have been the successes, again not integrating but helping schools re-imagine

[00:17:22] I know there's a lot of programs that have been wholeheartedly in favor of what you've been doing with science genius and all these kind of concepts but now are we worried that because of what we see happening that a lot of progress may be stifled and pushed back

[00:17:34] as we see with all other DEI and affirmative action, all the other things that have been along the same lines you know, like the only way I can respond to that question is through the words of one of the most prolific poets of our time

[00:17:48] who in the midst of a verse constructed what I've used as a mantra for my existence was told in shootouts stay low and keep firing then keep extra clips for extra shit and that's the approach like, the nature of engaging in academic work means that they will

[00:18:08] they're gonna shoot so they're gonna aim at your character, they're gonna aim at your approach they're gonna aim at your personality they will be shootouts and in the midst of those things we don't get bothered by the shootouts the key thing for anyone

[00:18:24] who wants to do revolutionary work has to be the recognition that resistance will come lies will come distortions will come and in the midst of those shootouts, what do you do? everything but stop you just keep firing let me say stay low stay low in spirit

[00:18:42] don't make sure it's about you stay low in continence like stay humble and just keep on doing the work stop them on deck, keep extra clips when extra-ish come up so they're gonna try, whenever somebody wants to do something really grand blasting

[00:18:58] oh by the way, we got this little program on deck we ain't tell y'all about that joint so are you talking about science change was just it? check out this collider classroom thing where we're reimagining classroom design through hip hop, like you ain't even know

[00:19:10] are you thought all we did was spaces? people we do with this conference are you talking what we're doing was just this look at how many phd's we've produced so you stay low and keep firing you keep extra clips for extra shit

[00:19:23] and you never stop, why don't you stop? because you believe in what you're doing like my, recognition visibility if there was two of the spaces or no two of the spaces if there was a hip hop conference or not I would not stop doing

[00:19:39] what I'm doing because it makes my soul speak and so when you live beyond the parameters of those things you ain't got to worry about it you know where the resistance is going to come we just keep doing what we do I think it's also embedded

[00:19:55] in what you define as success and how you measure your impact and it's making sure that you don't fall into the trappings of this is the way you're supposed to measure your success because as social media goes through this ebbs and flows as people's lives

[00:20:17] go through ebbs and flows if I was counting just straight numbers the numbers have gone down but it can't be about that because those who the core that are there we get to hear that we're changing lives we get to hear that like so

[00:20:39] because there was a time like we was doing this when Twitter had 140 characters and it would be nothing to look on the trend and see hashtag hip hop ed literally trending nationally a couple of times it was trending internationally and you know this is when chirp story

[00:20:59] you was getting all that data, chirp story isn't even in existence anymore and so now so if it was a numbers game then that would fuel the feeling of being tired but now it's like you get to hear you've been on space

[00:21:17] you get to hear literally people cry you get to hear people that say I was just praying to make it to Tuesday so that I could be back with community okay, well then qualitatively that doesn't measure up but quantitatively and then for Chris and I as the host

[00:21:37] of that, then that's feeding our soul and then you don't know like Pac said I may not change the world but I may spark that one so then okay, in the midst of doing this work in the spaces, in the midst of doing

[00:21:55] this conference, in the midst of giving somebody an opportunity to get published when they didn't even think that it was possible to have somebody be able to just hang out like yo come to New York, let's just hang out and the significance because we've witnessed it

[00:22:11] in the early days of Science Genius where you had kids from New York City like yo, we get to come to Teachers College and security is not going to tell us we don't belong, like we get to come to Teachers College with our Adidas on, our polo gear

[00:22:25] jump on the stage, wild out and Riz is right there and like what? and then it's like I'm sure Chris had to call parents to be like no, they're not making it up they really are going to this Ivy League school and representing

[00:22:41] in a rhyme battle, like that doesn't even sound right in 2012 when this was first birth and that's Spring 13 so it's those moments that keep us going and then truthfully real talk, like Nicodemus came at night to holler at Jesus, the hate has come at night, the

[00:23:03] hate has come at night because it's like okay you shoot down the hashtag but then you want one of us to consult for you so it's like because truthfully what it is we have taken the stand and this may sound pompous, we don't need you you need us

[00:23:21] we truly are going to be alright, like we've created an economy and an ecosystem that takes care of ourselves and they going to come along and you hear the testimonies, it's a theme to the discussion every week, it's usually populated by teachers or other academics

[00:24:07] but also those who are interested in the interdisciplinary fields, here's a question I ask sometimes because we're academics or don't yell at me, I'm an academic too, I know, I know I know, you already get, no listen that's my thing I don't allow anybody

[00:24:25] in my space to talk down on themselves listen, you did it to me already and I hold that so hard I tell people that story and I tell them the same thing you told me when they do the same thing, so believe me it's each one's each one

[00:24:40] I ask a lot of times, we're in a little bit of an inside baseball space because we work in the educational spaces a lot we talk about that stuff what can parents or hip-hop heads who are getting older feel that their culture contributes more

[00:24:54] to society but they're not teachers legitimately they're not academics, they're not in that world but we could use their signal booster, right? We could use their amplification, we can use their support what does the average person average person, but you know what I mean, not in this field

[00:25:08] how can they help us? Because they might be listening to this too, like oh I love them but I'm not a teacher I'm a parent, maybe do I go to school board meetings? What can I do as a citizen of the United Hip Hop Nations

[00:25:20] to help these efforts? Yo just join a community it's really so simple it's like when you come into the space or you come to the conference you will find like-minded souls and spirits who have their own different entry points as well and when you build with folks

[00:25:38] who have the same heart as you you guys find ways to find what part of the culture or part of the movement you get in on I always tell people this, there is no movement where everybody's monolithic otherwise you don't have a movement exclusionary practices

[00:25:54] not a piece of what we do when you get in where you fit in literally, when you get in where you fit in you find your space and then you become the expert in your domain, so it might be somebody

[00:26:04] who's like a PhD or whatever else it is but ain't got the knowledge of 80s and 90s hip hop that you have now you become a resource for that person right? Somebody might be like a parent but not a parent of this generation and you are

[00:26:18] and so it's you know, when you operate in community we don't ever lack all the expertise we need is in a part of the community, so I don't have there's no defined roles, there's no defined titles, there's just defined spirit shared spirit, shared connection, shared emotion, shared value

[00:26:36] and once that comes together we all get in where we fit in I'm always encouraging folks like you don't have to be you know, you hear college, you hear conference academic conference, no you don't have to be academic you hear hip hop conference

[00:26:49] you could be just hip hop, you could be an art in fact, artists I think are great to come into this space I've never touched these kind of, you know we know Aisha in Harvard and you know Dr. Lauren Kelly in Rutgers where I work with her conference

[00:27:03] when folks who don't know what this is about come into these spaces they get so inspired like oh there's more I can do than just write rhymes and record tracks like I can actually be involved in this stuff you know, I'm building off

[00:27:15] of the title of what you do, he says hip hop can save America and I think sometimes we put so much emphasis on education if you think about a 24 hour day you're in traditional education from 9 to 3 that's only 6 hours so that parent they handling the other 18

[00:27:39] that person that is just on the block like doing those things, the reality is the educators are low key studying and getting credentials off of observing you, you're the expert of what it is that has become this field of study yeah that makes sense

[00:27:59] so for us it's like yo come in because the truth be told I could claim to be hip hop to the hilt and this that the other but I don't know what it's like to be 25 riding the two train in 2024 navigating okay now drill

[00:28:19] is becoming a little more nuanced because now they talking to the ladies or you know you are a parent and then on the side you're an artist like those are the types of that's the type of energy that's what we need because the problem is when you just

[00:28:37] when everybody around you starts looking the same and sounding the same you actually isolated yourself and got off track from the work and a lot of times what we do is just hype each other up and we just start yessing and amening each other and because

[00:28:53] the way the Swords will iron sharp as iron based on friction not based on laying on top of each other and playing nice so have them come through drop bars share whatever that's how we do it and trust me the last thing I'll say is

[00:29:12] when they come through we surprise them because you know a lot of people will think like oh well you know hip hop educators they're over here and then the skill catch it's like listen we could do the camber we still get busy you know what I mean

[00:29:26] we could go on 120th and Broadway and have a cypher or we could go in the chapel and have a cypher and we gonna do it in both places and be comfortable in both places yeah I also love the idea that people who don't understand anything

[00:29:42] about any of this can come in and should come in who like this doesn't even make any sense it's almost like for the welcoming it's almost like come as you are right medical hospitality man that's it

[00:29:54] everyone's welcome they'll all be blown away that's why I said it my thing if you've never been to anything like this it'll just change your perspective a little bit or a lot but it'll definitely change his perspective before I let y'all go give me a couple minutes

[00:30:04] longer y'all good I wanna know a little bit more of the specifics I have to give this opportunity to this gentleman his name is Rang Bells in our circle he's a music teacher from Mighty Yonkers New York and he's a great supporter

[00:30:18] of the show yeah why you in the building and he wanted to ask a question live and direct I said of course Mr. Andrew Wang could jump on and say something real quick ask his question the best dressed of us all come on what are you doing here

[00:30:30] I'm saying I got you I got you Andrew I know you wanted to ask questions I want to ask the white folks directly so please yeah first of all shout out to Martin Urbeck who introduced me to Chris in the sense that white folks are teaching

[00:30:46] the hood book that really changed my perception of teaching but I can get into all that later on you were talking about how anyone could be a part of this I grew up in a suburban environment this is the big question I have so hip hop

[00:31:00] has had an influence in the world all these different countries different states and regions but I feel those in suburban environments in America still have trouble grasping this understanding what hip hop could be or how it can indirectly impact their lives so I just was curious

[00:31:18] to know what you think about that kind of situation because I know even I when I go into a suburban environment like people are like scared to see me wearing stuff like this or like this you know and I'm like I want to change that narrative

[00:31:34] brother the only way you can change narratives to show up as a full self showcasing all the complexities of who you are that includes your hip hop self and initially there will always be like apprehension or there might be pause but the frequency

[00:31:48] with which you engage with your full self will be the extent to which the people in your surroundings move along it's just about not when they give you the resistance not letting up you know what I mean so when I

[00:31:58] enter certain spaces sometimes the folks are like oh I'm not sure what that is and they think that I am going to like listen to their not getting it and not come back I'll be back next week to offer you some more I'll be back

[00:32:08] and you know it's about consistency you know every consistent patterned action becomes ritual so first you got to decide who do you want to impact so if you could make a decision urban like yo you know what I want to impact the suburban space

[00:32:20] and once you've decided that that's your mission and your goal that I build a ritual out of my commitment to transforming that space through the culture and every consistent patterned action become ritual we thought we sent them away he back next week

[00:32:34] we thought he sent them away he came back with a new idea next week and before long if people are not convinced about your content they're convinced by your dedication and once folks are convinced by your dedication and you're speaking truths

[00:32:46] then what you have to say starts resonating and all you need is a convert look it's like a come to Jesus moment in the church all we need is one soul just one person to come up that's the altar call and once you've done that

[00:32:58] you've built a partnership, partnerships becomes coalitions, coalitions become movements movements become change so you know that's all it is again like I said earlier stay low keep firing and the words are biggie and it's going to be aye I'm really glad Andrew that

[00:33:14] one glad to meet you we've been connected in Facebook and all these other things I get to see a face behind the typing the question that you're lifting is so critical because for a lot of us we started off in urban spaces and our careers

[00:33:32] have afforded us the opportunity to now we live in suburban spaces and so we often face sometimes a lot of our young people in suburban spaces deal with an identity crisis because it's hip hop is so pervasive that it's not just hip hop is so pervasive

[00:33:55] it's speaking to them but if they're not seeing reflections of themselves they begin to emulate what is being presented to them and then the danger is A. They're not built that way and then B they have the resources to take the the wankster studio

[00:34:21] whatever you want to call it to that nth degree so it really is about entering into that suburban space and then lifting up one making sure we're telling the hip hop origin story and its early story in full yes and then two because honestly what's happening

[00:34:43] it's like oh this is De La Soul all over again because it's like okay in order for them to say in my lawn you had to have a lawn you know what I'm saying whereas now that sounds crazy but for them to come out with that

[00:35:01] and that's going to be my lead single in a pre-gangsta era like yo because this is our reality so when you present hip hop through that lens of really it's you telling your story expressing yourself so why you going to be a shame

[00:35:23] if you happen to live in a place where you get to celebrate Mother's Day and Father's Day because they both in the house and everybody got the same name why you going to feel less ethnic or less whatever because you're at a school that gives

[00:35:39] a damn like so it's like so I think the work that needs to be done is really getting them to see beyond this commercial co-op thing of their mind because that's really becomes the problem because I live in Maryland I see it all the time

[00:35:59] my son we like it's almost like we'll laugh and it's like yo pop this kid went to school would be and now he got a gangsta track but in 10th grade his home was $700,000 you know tell the truth I think that's the beauty of hip hop

[00:36:15] trains us to tell the truth right so no matter what the entry point is what it is is peace love unity having fun right radical honesty radical truth and also like this idea of this radical possibility the activation of the imagination

[00:36:29] and you can imagine yourself to be a thug or gangsta but you can imagine yourself to be so much more exactly and so it's about truth telling and imagination yeah word up thank you Andrew I appreciate you you're a spitting tent thanks man that touched home

[00:36:47] I live in that setting and work in schools where it's like yo man come on I'll also tell you listen the fact that that question and the way y'all answered it was great because I come from a side I was down the road from De La Sol myself

[00:37:03] and I came up a certain way and I have my own certain perspectives and I also have things that other people might not have had my dad was a sociologist and he knew about he was an urban study sociologist minorities guy I knew what gentrification

[00:37:13] meant when I was eight so I knew some things coming up but I was overseas last week the European hip hop studies conference out there in Cork Ireland and what you get is you get Europeans like they don't have the same history as us

[00:37:25] they don't have the same the racial African diaspora but in America kind of things that are happening that we've built our hip hop knowledge on and so they're like how do we fit in how do we get to like participate

[00:37:37] in this we're trying to do the same things the landscape looks different but what y'all were saying is that translates across boundaries there's a universality to being from a population where you've been broken, hurt pushed to the margins and you need to have voice and

[00:37:55] privilege in that context is relative you know what I'm saying like urban kids go through stuff too my parents gave me so much money they never gave me themselves that's right, you hurt and brokenness you need to have voice I come from Ireland and

[00:38:11] my particular population has never had voice in society like everybody got hip hop is like I'm sorry now I'm getting all emotional the beauty of the culture is there are entry points to every person it provides you the opportunity to be able to find your truth and find

[00:38:27] your voice and have a mechanism to be able to embody and give up that's all it is it's a mouthpiece for the forgotten and everybody knows what it feels like to be forgotten at some point and that's the magic of hip hop

[00:38:42] ed but it's the magic of hip hop you know what I'm saying hip hop provides us that and truthfully at some point and we may even be there be inspired not necessarily to mimic be inspired to let your imagination ignite how you want

[00:39:00] to get down where you are they be that's like okay if we want to say from a because if we say August 11th 1973 in the Bronx but what happened there was inspired by what preceded it so I love what grand master Kaz says that hip hop didn't invent

[00:39:26] anything it reinvented everything okay so he didn't say that to say that that was only supposed to be one evolution of it and so for us as we get older we got to be open to see other parts of the world other generations that Chris said that

[00:39:50] the way that they choose to develop their agency and voice and find themselves creates the cultural continuum because think about it because you can say if there wasn't the black arts movement we wouldn't have hip hop the way we have it now if it wasn't for

[00:40:10] the new eurecan poets movement maybe we wouldn't have hip hop the way we have it now if punk rock wasn't searching and doing the same things where they saw cause you take community as common unity that uptown and downtown even though they look different

[00:40:28] and the sounds were different but in this heart it's like yo we all looking for the same thing because we all are rebelling against whoever them is at that moment so punk rock didn't say I'm gonna become hip hop hip hop didn't say I'm gonna become punk rock

[00:40:46] but we gon coexist and then the producers are gonna be like oh okay maybe every now we can sample now we can start doing this so it would be those individuals in ireland what's poppin in ireland that would make you be like yo the way no matter

[00:41:02] where Chris is he gon throw this up for the BX okay whether you gon throw up the IR whatever it is in ireland whatever because that's really what makes you hip hop I feel like hip hop has grown where hip hop is a philosophy

[00:41:18] hip hop is a spiritual approach to how you want to live being inspired by these contemporary artifacts and the principles of peace unity love and having fun I've been married almost 26 years we my wife and I we have peace we have unity we have love and we

[00:41:38] have fun but we're not out spray painting and doing elements together you not doing the kid and play kickstep with your wife no y'all know y'all was spray painting in your little suburban area y'all I'm trying to throw the five don't try to throw five off of y'all

[00:41:54] I know what y'all be doing out there y'all tagging the back of Panera what y'all doing so I'd like but that's what it is so we get to show up 100% we get to show up and expand it so because the beauty of it is Chris

[00:42:10] is daughter and son who I love they get to grow up and dream within a broader presentation of what hip hop is that Chris and I couldn't have imagined and that's our responsibility that's what hip hop ed is about I love it

[00:42:30] baby girl faces would agree because she's you know she's coming up in her own little way as well we like to see it happen I like to say I said in a talk I gave in Ireland about the grand master Kaz quote hip hop didn't

[00:42:42] invent anything but it reinvented everything including itself yes you know I mean that includes itself you cannot put in a box that which is never supposed to have been in a box in the first place that was legitimately created to be unboxable and so there are people

[00:42:56] that's what this man got to show exactly what's up for me he got a show and shirts but um y'all got shirts I see y'all shirts so with that said and coming back around we'll close it out I kept y'all long enough I think but I love talking

[00:43:17] I'm really glad we had this conversation it's been just an honor this has been great thank you because honestly thank you for what you do and see because us coming together helps people see we can't be divided there's no competition because that's a very westernized

[00:43:39] thing where it's like yo you got jockey for position so man he invited us then what we got to do for this to that and the other as opposed to like no like real talk like really we are super proud of what you do, how you

[00:43:55] do it, the way that you do it because you truly stay true to yourself I've heard your story in different places and spaces and it's always been the same so for me that's the formula for authenticity because sometimes code switch can become so frequent that the switch

[00:44:15] toggles so much you don't even know what real is anymore because you always switching but when you get to a point where you at peace with who you are then you make the people that are listening switch so you got to switch to receive

[00:44:29] me I'm not switching for you you're not my fam this is my fam and that's really what it's about for the culture I appreciate that One more time we'll remind people about the conference happening in 12 days now or yeah man pull up y'all

[00:44:45] listen pull up tell them what's going to happen tell them why it should be there if they like this anywhere near New York it's a no brainer obviously take a bus, take a train, take a walk take a jump hop and summer is warm now you can come

[00:44:59] to New York now exactly I did the thing that New Yorkers do when I moved to Atlanta so I don't like coming back in the winter I'm bougie now I can't but now I can come now I can come it's nice now no definitely the conference is June 22

[00:45:17] up at Teachers College we starting the day coaching and just vibe session with some individuals who are working on different panel workshop ideas like I said we're the unconference we didn't want to turn anybody away we created lanes we just going to build and then from there

[00:45:41] we're super excited because what would be our opening keynote is a poetry exhibition poetry soul fest led by no other than Dr. Yoli and so it was Yoli, Kaylee and then Lyrical Faith who's going to bring it down so that's how we're kicking it off

[00:46:03] and then we're going into workshops and we have so many people from hip hop ed fam presenting workshop, presenting papers our lunch is going to be capped by Wisdom of the Cypher you talking about being in Ireland nobody got more hip hop passport stamps than Tony Blackmon

[00:46:25] so you get to come and see Tony Blackmon do her thing with the Wisdom of the Cypher and then we're going to have another round of workshops with people like we do it for the culture high school for recording arts we got people from all over

[00:46:41] and then ending the day with a conversation with team yellow which is Pharrell's organization that have schools down in Virginia and that conversation is featuring Chris, dynamite sister named Crystal M. Watson out of Oregon and then we're going to have Crystal M. Watson out of Ohio

[00:47:01] like she's fire the one and only Dina Simmons she's coming through and myself so I tell people like understand for $50 which is really nothing for $50 you're going to get to chill with these individuals as well as meet people and people are just coming through

[00:47:23] and doing it for the love and so you could just go on X and go to the real hip hop ed the tweet is right there on the top or you could just go to bit.ly slash capital H H E D C O N F

[00:47:41] R E G 24 and just register and come through lunch is going to be provided we're going to have the music going meet a friend come and be friendly and have an amazing time and survive rumor has it I'll be there you might get to see me too

[00:48:04] my presence is a present Shia La and to have Tony Blackman in the space is a blessing everybody for real we're excited about everybody but you know what it is to get Tony Blackman I was just grateful that she's on this side of the earth that's the thing

[00:48:26] you gotta time that you and Chris caught me before I head home the hip hop ambassadour extraordinary Charlotte Michelle by the way CM in the building she's hanging out in the chat I know she's been helping out our eternal consulting producer love always is Summer McCoy

[00:48:46] oh no please I didn't know you rockin with Summer like that Summer you better come through she had better come through Summer you better come through I'm hiking I'm doing something you owe me some love and a hug Summer is a huge supporter and a mentor

[00:49:08] just a beautiful soul she's the eternal consulting producer for this show giving flowers lastly while I got you you already answered my big how can hip hop save America question you covered that the idea of the hip hop ed consortium the collective loose and or unofficial and unofficial

[00:49:28] what's the future of the movement hip hop is like Wu-Tang that's the best analogy to describe it I love it we are a consortium of folks who are doing work across geographic settings I see our guy Rap was on here Raffi is on here doing

[00:49:44] work Ian Levy doing work in mental health and counseling him doing his work with youth development and techniques for learning I do what I do with science genius and collider classroom or whatever else it is Sys and DC it's a collective of folks

[00:50:00] across and a beautiful thing with that Wu-Tang spirit and energy is like you throw that W up everybody comes through everybody goes to their spaces and they also do what they need to do and they represent for the brand and for the culture and for the movement

[00:50:16] and I love that I think it's a beautiful thing and what I love about that model is that it does not center anyone at the expense of anyone else and I say this to Tim we've been doing hip hop at spaces for so long

[00:50:32] all of a sudden my university gave me a class to teach on a Tuesday night and I've been leading this combo my whole entire last decade you know what can't make it guess what happens Tim leads it Tim is another co-author and that's the beauty of it

[00:50:50] there's no figurehead there's no center there's just community so when somebody needs to take a step back they can when somebody needs to lead they can when everybody's present they can and that's the future of hip hop ed even my dog agrees

[00:51:06] you see him walk away my dog is like I'm looking at the comments and I gotta shout out my sis who is a great woman aka red summer who will be doing a workshop representing museum studies at Duke Ellington national hip hop museum so she just slid through

[00:51:28] and definitely our click who hold it down with us on Tuesday but to the future what Chris was saying we are going to take that moment and really find a way to capture this story of this digital community because and it's interesting because I've been watching Hulu

[00:51:48] they had a three part series on black twitter and I watched the first episode because at first I was like I only got no time but it is brilliant but as I'm watching it and I'm looking at those years and it's like okay our

[00:52:02] story in some ways runs parallel to that but we're the ones that have to be responsible for telling it so it's not me sitting there like man ain't nobody holler at my man Chris and this that the other it's like nope I see the blueprint I'm inspired

[00:52:20] that's great we have a story to tell and I think as we tell that story there's going to be people who may have passed through that we never saw who was inspired by that hashtag and then went out and did that

[00:52:37] we're always going to keep telling your story by the way shout out to Natalie Krue culture fix you know what I mean but yo you tell your own stories if you wait for somebody else to tell your story they'll always write you out of it without a doubt

[00:52:53] if only we had really dope cultural hip hop media outlets that really folk oh wait we do oh shout out to us so yeah one song for me and for y'all really and Natalie Krue by the way

[00:53:07] I just talked to her the other night I was on another show and she's there Natalie Krue is everywhere she's like Roy Kent on the soccer show what about apple anyway Natalie and Nora Ted Lasso they was definitely our litmus early on you got to represent that

[00:53:25] it ain't just America oh god Natalie Krue every day she'll never forget me forget it's international and I keep that up but that's the thing now let me give real quick before we go that's the inspiration that we all provide each other like I'm totally

[00:53:39] Natalie Krue has been with me from the New York hip hop report when I was covering only New York hip hop on the birthplace magazine the thing that I built in 2008, 2009, 2010 and I wasn't even

[00:53:49] I didn't know about none of y'all I didn't know what a teaching artist really was I kind of knew but I didn't really know no until I met like Macalamine and I started talking to people who were doing stuff in the city

[00:53:57] and I'm like oh y'all actually y'all spitting out freestyle Mondays and I'm there because Mondays is dope but then you going into the you going into the men's juvenile detention center and you kicking it to the youth and giving them self you know

[00:54:09] expression and confidence y'all doing some things and then I meet Natalie she's rocking with me on the show there and I start and I get inspired by those to tell those stories so all I want to do I'm a story teller

[00:54:17] I just want to tell people stories amplifying uplift and then I find out about y'all I find out about a patina love and it's like then I'm inspired but now y'all telling me oh y'all you love what I do

[00:54:25] and now I'm able to hear put all these people in the same room it's very much each one teach one which is sort of like the heart of hip hop is how we all kind of got our piece of the hip hop pie

[00:54:33] from somebody else we didn't have YouTube we couldn't learn how to do hip hop from having here some of Toby Jenkins book like we learned it from each one teach one no doubt that's not out to Toby but you know

[00:54:43] 100% she's been on the show and I love it let me just say this really quick just let people know because Chris knows like when I say like you're my brother and like we love each other like it's real it's real none of this matters more than that

[00:55:01] but I can never forget we met on Twitter like we're sitting here today because it was a Tuesday night and I happened to get on Twitter and I saw this hashtag and I just learned what a hashtag was a couple of hours ago before that night

[00:55:23] and in the spirit of hip hop we firing at each other because I'm like yo I don't know you and he's like son I don't know you and we start and this is back March 2011 and literally I was at my mother's bedside cause she was in the process

[00:55:39] of transitioning from pancreatic cancer so when I tell you like what he means to me that's the type of energy where I was saying earlier we will always be successful because these are God ordained connections I could not have scripted this relationship and it's like listen

[00:56:01] the family grows the family goes and comes and this that and the other but when people were like yo it's Tim and Chris it's not because we're leading this it's because truthfully we were called to be in each others lives for things that had nothing to do

[00:56:19] for things that had nothing to do for things that had nothing to do with this work but if we weren't in each others lives we would not be able to do the work so you can marinate on that hey listen that's divine

[00:56:35] and the fact that we mentioned so many people names that were in the chat or not that's what I love about this we always going to uplift and amplify somebody else so that's why it's just still great to be around y'all because y'all in the center of it

[00:56:47] but the tentacles reach out far and wide and we'll all be coalescing on the teachers college campus on June 22 12 days from now in beautiful New York City or less days if you're watching on the replay because you need to be there again the info is on

[00:57:03] I think of everything there's twitter the real hip hop ed you get the information there $50 registration come down and hang out with y'all and us I'll be there and learn about this work and how you can apply it in the best way possible is there anything else

[00:57:15] I haven't covered that y'all would like to get across to the people we're looking forward to it it's going to be a beautiful session appreciate you for having us in the space beloved salute to Candice thanks honor and privilege to have y'all here tonight thank you

[00:57:32] we'll talk again be safe now is a live stream on YouTube hip hop can save america dot com slash watch check back for all the replays as well the interviews from the live stream will be brought here onto the audio feed so you always get the best

[00:57:58] of the live stream you can also check out our sub stack newsletter it's free at many faces dot sub stack dot com filled with stories of hip hop innovation inspiration and in general hip hop news that isn't about dumb sh** eternal shouts to our consulting producer

[00:58:14] summer mccoy be sure to check out her dope initiatives hip hop hacks and the mixtape museum we'll be back soon with another dope episode but check us out on the live stream as well Mondays 9pm Eastern hip hop can save america dot com slash watch until next time

[00:58:28] to many faces wishing peace and love to you and yours